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Why this program doesnt work for most of YOU! (Bozac)
Posted: 8:46:48 pm on 1/10/2002 Modified: Never
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Repost of Thermo:
There are so many mixed opinions about penile enlargement, especially on this board. Some have seen fantastic gains in as little as 2 month, while others have seen nothing after 6 month. Some have erections of steel, while other have a harder time attaining an erection.
As some of you know, I am a national bodybuilder, and have been for many years. I have been on the program for about 5 month now, and this is my look on it. As to date, I have gained 2 + inches, most of it being in the last 3 month. Basically, I look at my penis the same way as if it where any other muscle in my body, and take into consideration all the factor that determine muscle growth.
Have you ever been to a gym before, then stop going, and returned a year later?? What do you usually see? Well, for arguments sake, let's say everyone that was there a year ago is still there. You will have some people who have gained a tremendous amount of weight, while others have gained very little, and most have gained nothing at all. Why? Where they not working out?? Yes, but one must realize that there are so many factors that need to be there in order to make growth possible. You cannot expect growth just because you do the exercises. All the exercise does is stimulate growth. Once you've done that, you must give your body what it needs to be able to achieve growth. Genetics will play a part as to how fast you will grow, but regardless of your genetics, EVERYBODY is capable of growth.
The 2 most common reason's why people attain very little to no growth.
1. Your Diet
2. Overtraining
The most important factor of all, and I cannot stress this enough is your DIET!!!!!! 90% of people have a terrible diet. No breakfast, fast food, lack of vitamins and minerals, lack of proper calories, essential fat, protein, and the list goes on. I can go to the gym, do everything right, but if I do not have the proper diet, I will gain NOTHING!!! and could even end up losing weight. So if you are serious about growth, look at your diet very carefully. Adding a multi vitamin will not solve your problem. If you don't have the proper diet, a multi V. will do very little for you. I know they really push the vitamins and minerals on this site, but that's only to make money. Yes, they are important, but there are many other factors to one diet that must be looked at.
Overtraining. Your biggest enemy. So many people are under the impression more is better. I see time and time again, people who go to the gym, and have the mentality that the more I do, the faster, and the bigger I'll grow. Nothing could be father from the truth. I am 5' 9", at a competition weight of around 210 5 % bf. 21 inch arms, 55 inch chest. And I do less sets and reps than 95% of the people in the gym. Why?? Simple, to attain growth you need to stimulate your muscle, telling it to grow, right?? Let's take my biceps for example. I'll do three sets. 1 warmup set, one heavier set, and the last set I will do to absolute failure. (You must have INTENSITY on the last set) What have I just done? I have put my muscle under stress that it is not used to, hence, it will adapt. How will it adapt, by growing. You only need that one set to stimulate growth. If I where to continue and do 3, 4, 6 more sets, the only thing that I am doing at this point, is tearing it down more. I am doing nothing to increase growth. So my body will need more nutrition, hormones, as well as time just to repair the muscle. My point being, MORE IS NOT ALWAY BETTER!!
What happens when you work a muscle, is that you tear it down. Then your body goes in, repairs the damage that was done, THEN after that it will grow. If your body has not finished it's repairs on the muscle, and then you work it out again, your are overtraining. There will be little to no growth. Your body is going to work hard and struggle just to repair itself. So if I preform 10 sets instead of 3, then I may be doubling the time it takes to repaire my muscle before it can adapt. So why would you do more, when it only slow's (or stops) gains??
There are two types of overtraining. Localized (Just a specific muscle) or your entire body. With penile enlargement, you obviously only overtrain locally.
My point to this post is this. Most people on this program are lacking the two most important factors that determine growth. Diet, and proper exercise. Don't take this manual and follow it to the T. Experiment. Find out what works for you. Everyone is different, so you cannot set a guideline that will work for everyone. I have experimented with this program. For the first month on this program, everyday my sex drive would go down, my erection got weaker and my stamina got wors. So instead of continuing the program (As so many people do), I stopped and analyzed why I was going down hill instead of up. My biggest mistake, I did exactly what the manual told me. So after months of experimenting, I am now having excellent gains from this program. 2 + inches in length, 1 inch in grith, harder erection than ever before, and stamina has much improved.
This is now my routine.
6 day's a week.
5-10 min hot wrap before and after
10-15 mines of jelking, that's it! I usually never go over 10 min. But I make it an intense 10 minutes. Hard, slow jelks. And I make sure that when I do my stroke, that my penis expands bigger than normal. I find that sometimes when I am not erect enough, I can still jelk, but I don't expand beyond normal size. You must make it bigger than normal in order to attain growth. I also find that I need to be around 80% erect to achieve gains, not 50-60% as I was told.
Now I only do stretching 2-3 times a week, and no more than 5 min per session. I found that to much stretching, as well as pulling to hard was the biggest factor in my ED.
Kegles, in the manual, it says you can never do to many of these. Bullshit!!! Don't ever listen to that. You can!! I do a good set of kegles every 2 day. It took me about 1 month before I found out how to truly isolate the musle. But once I did, the next day I was so sore, that I could barely walk lol.....I was sore for about 3 day's after that. Give your PC time to recover. Don't think that doing them in the morning, when you drive, at the movies, at night, 5 times a day will make it stronger. For me, it is counter productive to work it so often. Try to give it one intense workout every 1-2 day's. If you feel that you are over training, take a few day's off. It will do you more good than most people realize. If you are preforming ton's of kegles a day, and still have a hard time getting an erection, decress your frequency. My kegles workouts are very intense. If I preforme them everyday, that's when I have trouble to attain, and maitain an erection. I can only preform them every 2 day's. Anymore, and it's to much.
Dedication. One must be dedicated to see any gains. Don;t expect to see gains after a week. Give it time, they will come.
This is only my personal experience with the program. I am by no means saying that this will work for everyone. This is only what works best for me, and I am still no expert. Some people who have been doing this for a long time can handle much longer, and harder session. My point to this post is this. You will not grow just becuase you do the excersice. Take into consideration all the other factors that determine growth, and learn how to do the excersise properly, and customize it for what works for you. Try not to look at what other people are doing, and copying them. What works for one persone, may not work for others. Keep it simple, and don't over do it.
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Re: Why this program doesnt work for most of YOU! (T)
Posted: 7:03:35 pm on 2/5/2002 Modified: 2:20:47 pm on 3/15/2002
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Yeah let's keep Thermo's post fresh and renew.
Btw, haven't seen him for a long time.
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Re: Why this program doesnt work for most of YOU! (mov7point0)
Posted: 12:31:45 am on 2/6/2002 Modified: Never
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Everyone has something to gain from that post. Myself, for instance, realized that jelqing at 80% is MUCH better for me. I've tried it a few times for about 15-20 mins and the pump I get out of it is fantastic.
---> Haven't gained for awhile? EVALUATE your situation! There are SO MANY factors in PE. Ask yourself:
1) Am I overtraining?
2) Am I getting enough rest/sleep?
3) Am I eating at least 50g of protein a day (only thing that will make new tissue!), as well as plenty of complex carbs to speed healing time?
Train intelligently, let your body heal, and give it the fuel to heal with!
Good luck from one of your PE teammates, mov7point0
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Re: Why this program doesnt work for most of YOU! (donflo)
Posted: 11:36:30 am on 3/12/2002 Modified: Never
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I agree totally with u but do u feel 30 minutes is too long for jelqing?
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Re: Why this program doesnt work for most of YOU! (si)
Posted: 5:12:31 pm on 3/12/2002 Modified: Never
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Finally, A good post has arisen on this message board. Thermo knows what he is talking about and maybe if people listened to good and practical advice then they would get some results. But oh no these people insist on asking stupid questions rather than reading the quality info that is already present. You would think that after so many good and informative posts have been made people would begin to learn something.
It surprises me that all i see on this forum is people grumbling about not making gains or wanting to make gains. The typical daily posts are almost always of this type, which sort of suggests that nobody knows what the fuck they are doing. So then if anyone on this board had any common sense they would realise that there is no point in asking these questions since almost everyone knows jack shit about pe. There attitude is ignore the experienced guys and just ask stupid questions on the board.
I am thankful that I was gifted with some common sense and above average intelligence when I was born, i am also thankful to myself for developing it, I feel sorry for the people on this board because the majority of them seem lost. They will just not let go and do something alone. Anyway, i feel that that i will probably take my leave of the penile fitness program and look for a message board elsewhere, where the calibre of discussion is a whole lot more interesting.
Good luck to all those who i have credited and given praise to in the past, I hope you make the best gains possible. Take care.
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Re: Why this program doesnt work for most of YOU! (kingdingaling)
Posted: 7:57:28 pm on 3/12/2002 Modified: Never
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to si and bazac those are damn good postings and you are really right about how all the people on this program are ignorant to fact that there dick wont grow over night like ive said before the old heads on this program have alot of good advise-- i think of si as almost like a penis mentor so si please dont stop putting up post you are a real inspiration and you do talk with alot of sense and from personal experience on about a month and a have i noticed that i get real good gains when i do shorter and more intence sessions instead of just goin at for a long period of time so si and bozac i give much props to you and keep up the gains
everyones dick will grow but none will be bigger than mines and thats the damn deal
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(T)
Posted: 8:05:34 pm on 3/12/2002 Modified: 8:11:40 pm on 3/14/2002
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I can't believe you two said that.
You hurt their feeling and now they're leaving too.
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Re: (si)
Posted: 9:26:24 am on 3/13/2002 Modified: Never
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I was thinking about taking a break from the board and looking elsewhere for some discussion, but after what kingdingaling said, i feel like I should stay, but my view is that, the people who get paid to run this site should be doing the things that myself and people like thermo and RT do. Why should i spend all my time explaining the same thing over and over again, I get nothing out of it. Initially my posts were intended to help and be a reference, but it seems now that every time I visit the board i see the same stuff being asked that i had answered in my posts. The owners of this site should be a whole lot more helpful.
Also I would like to be educated myself in some aspects of pe, I personally asked mako for some discussion but he ignored me. Since he is probably the only one I could learn from here and he ignores me then there is no point hanging about anymore. Anyway, I will probably post occasionally here, and see whats going on. Also like I said before, anyone who wants to use my email address to ask me questions or specifics that they would rather not post here then they can do so. Pull up my posts and the email is in there somewhere.
Just out of interest, I have recieved alot of emails from people who have read my posts and they have asked why i have not made a site of my own. I feel that if I made a site it would be the total package, no issue would be left untouched, and everything would be made crystal clear. Pe sites these days are like bodybuilding books with exercises but no explanation of what to do with them.
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Re: (donflo)
Posted: 12:53:24 am on 3/13/2002 Modified: Never
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Si, I am new in this program and u seem like a person that has experience on this and has good results. I just want to know 1)After I have done the PE and my penis enlarges right after, Does that mean that I had a good workout and that my penis is going to grow? I know it sounds dumb but i am being real. I hope I can get a reply
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Re: (si)
Posted: 5:04:02 pm on 3/13/2002 Modified: Never
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Geez, my mind tells me to leave this place but my heart says stay,there is also a bit of curiosity going on too that makes me come back to the board. The truth is I like to help people and it seems they get little real advice on this board. They usually get one line responses to questions that demand a little bit more indepth discussion. Since the people who seek answers get little value in any response they get I have decided to help these people, It is only a small part of my day, like 20 mins. Also what comes around goes around and if I help people out, my kindness will be reciprocated back to me many times greater.
Sorry about the philosophy Donflo, but i want to speak the truth, it is out there you know, you just have to know where to find it. So you are interested in the signs of a good workout eh?
Well, the first sign is that you are pumped up after the workout. In my experience I hang considerably larger flaccid immediately after workout than before. This size decreases slightly after shower because i massage and get all the stale congested blood out, i want to get nutrient rich oxygenated blood back in. Some people say they like to keep the pump and so do not do a hot wrap cool down to remove any blood, these people don't see gains full stop. Also if a get an erection in the hours following pe I notice it is always larger and firmer than before a workout, which means i have expanded it larger than normal.
Also I have noticed that the coloration of the head is slightly darker after workout and during the following day, this is not bruising but a greater collection of fresh blood within. Have you ever been out in the cold and then came back in and notices your dick is very pale, this is because it has been drained of blood. A good pe workout serves to increase the blood you can hold in the spongy tissue therefore it will appear redder, since it is full of blood.
If you experince signs like this then you have had a good workout. Also if your erections are better then this another good sign.
I am sorry to tell you this but having a good workout does not mean you will grow. The workout is the spark and the rest and recovery/diet is like the fire. To see growth you need both of these factors.
What I am saying is that if you have a fantastic workout do not go and spoil it by rushing in to another workout too soon. Take the time to rest and growth should happen. Tissue in general takes 48-96 hours to regenerate and overcompensate and therefore working out too frequently can kill gains stone cold.
I can go into more info on this if you would like,if you want me to let me know and will post it soon. Also I may consider writing a series of articles about pe that i will distribute for free via email, if you or anyone else is interested let me know also. I hate seeing good people being duped.
Take care and above all have fun
simon
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Re: (dub)
Posted: 10:20:59 pm on 3/13/2002 Modified: Never
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With one of the bests posts I have read for quite a while and that I now recommend be read by guys I try to help in the chat room, I do not understand why others feel a need to interpet it. It stand well alone.
Others must feel differently, apparently.
dub
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Re: condoms (johnnybravo)
Posted: 11:58:29 pm on 3/13/2002 Modified: Never
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Hello all. I'm a virgin who's trying on condoms. Bottomline...what's the best condom for girth. I tried the trojan magnum XL which seems to be the "best" for girth...but it still is tight on my penis. I'm afraid of this "laminating" of my penis. I dunno 7 to 8 inches...the point is...how do guys with a "large" penis use condoms if they'r basically cutting off circulation. Guys had large penis' before trojan invented the mag XL, so what did they all do??? I mean, how did Milton berle and that other las vegas singer do it(the guy who devirginized elvira and made her go to the hospital)...
Also, how come the websites for health nutrition/ supplements are both not to be found. I've been on a high protein diet(for 6 months i've been on the TYPE O BLOOD DIET) and have noticed my overall muscle firmness all over my body to increase......i was on a major high protein diet since feb 2001 and have certainly helped with the hypoglycemia. EXERCISE PEOPLE, IT HELPS. i'm 25, and i still get those hard erections when i'm sitting.
anyways, i'd like to jelq jsut to see if it works....but damn, why increase girth if there is no condom available to handle over 64 mm ?
I'm new here, so i hope to hit ya all later.
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Re: (pette)
Posted: 9:00:06 am on 3/14/2002 Modified: Never
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Hi Si(mon) (and everybody else).
Like most people on this board I enjoy reading your posts. Let's just say the quality of them are above average.
I believe it's important to warm up properly if you want to have a truely good PE work out. However, warming penis tissue up is quite different from warming your muscles up (forexample when jogging, bodybuilding, playing basket ball...you name it).
Now, there are several reasons why you want to warm up before jogging (just an example) and some of these reasons are shared by people doing PE. The two main reasons for warming up I feel we as PE enthusiasts share with people who wants to jog are:
1) Raising the temperature so chemical processes happen faster.
2) Expand capillaries.
Things we don't really have in common are forexample tuning of the nervous system and to smear our joints (a penis doesn't have any joints).
Question is, how do we warm our penis up?
Hot wraps seem to be a good suggestion but it might take a little more than that. A few light tugs, maybe slapping it against your thighs and massage it gently. Furthermore I think it's important to consider the first few minutes of the jelq'ing session warm up too. DON'T start out jelq'ing as hard as possible. Take it easy for a few minutes then gradually add more pressure. That way it should also be possible to avoid serious bruises and injures in general, that is if you jelq the right way of course.
I agree it's a good idea to get nutrient rich oxygenated blood into the penis after a work out but a good strong erection is just as important if not more important than a hot wrap to accomplish this. The hot wrap is useful but that's also for other reasons, forexample raising the temperature so the chemical "healing processes" will happen faster but hopefully also help the blood flow more freely.
Usually 2 milimeters of blood flows in the penis but when you get an erection the amount increases to 50 - 100 mililiter!!
That's why I suggest getting a strong erection (and keep it for some time) right after your work out OR after you're done hot wrapping.
Ok, time is running out and I have a few things to take care of...
Hope at least some of this info was useful to someone.
Peace,
Pette
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Re: (ktr)
Posted: 10:40:52 am on 3/14/2002 Modified: Never
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si,
i would be interested in your continuation script. Please continue it because most of us need that kind of information in order to help us understand what is going on when we do these excercises. Do you suggest taking 1 or 2 days off after a good excercise or after maybe 2 good excercises. Ive been doing these excercises for a few months with little success and i think you may have explained my failures. You see, this manual suggests to perform the excercises 5-6 days per week. This may work for some but it doesnt work for me. I think i will take more time off inbetween workouts. Like you said, there should be time allocated for healing and growth.
I dont blame the manual 100%, it just needs a few updates or additions to it, cause everyone is different and everyone has to figure out what works for them. The manual cant tell everyone what works for them. It can only list the excercises with some pointers like it has, and when guys like you point things out, then update the manual to reflect these improvements.
Also, I dont think that they should have taken chiefies power squeeze off the program just because a few beginners tried it and it stunt their growth. What they shoud do is post it somewhere on this program with a warning note that it is not for beginners and the repercussions involved for those who use it. I think that if I reach my goal as far as length is concern, and all I want thereafter is girth, then chiefies routine might be the one I need. Lets not limit the excercises on this program, cause what works well for some may not work well for me. Some might gain all the girth from just jelking while others wont gain any and maybe chiefies routine might be what they need. Anyway, I think I said a mouth full. Later.
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Re: (si)
Posted: 6:02:51 pm on 3/14/2002 Modified: 6:24:03 pm on 3/14/2002
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Anyway about this continuation script, you wanted me to tell you about what happens when you do these exercises. Well i have thought about this a lot and have decides on three possibilities, let me list these for you:
1)you cause the tissue to develop microtears and so you need to repair it by incorporating new protein molecules into it.
2)You simply stretch the tissue beyond its elastic limit, much like expanding a balloon. No new tissue is added since you don't break it down.
3)A combination of the above.
So which of these is true?
I for ona am not certain but I will determine which of these hypotheses is true soon. Basicly depending upon which of these you believe to be true, you can predict what workout frequency will be best.
For example if penis enlargement occurs by incorporation of new tissue then it is analogous to muscle repair. You cause damage ny lifting weight and then rest and repair. Sometimes for 5-7 days. I do not think you need as much rest with pe but you do need some. If it takes 48 hours to repair the tissue after a pe workout what would be the benefit of doing another pe workout 24 hours later?
No benefit because you have not healed!
So you would wait for 48 hours and then do another workout. This is only true if each workout you do is enough to stimulate growth. If you do not reach that threshold of stimulus then gains will be slow but can be fine tuned for maximum gains after a while.
In this model recovery is equally as important as the exercises. Diet would also factor in as well.
Now lets consider model number 2 where we believe enlargement is due to stretching the tissue alone, no new tissue is added.
Well imagine if one day you decide that you want to be able to touch your toes. You stand straight legged and bend at the waist maintaining straight legs. Assume that you cannot touch your toes. What is the best way to develop flexibility? You would probably be best off to stretch lightly 5-6 days a week over a few week rather than once a week. If you apply this analogy to pe then you would perform workouts 5-6 days a week rather than 2,3 or 4 a week. Since this type of response is a conditioning one you need to gain by repitition i.e.doing the same thing over and over very frequently.
Also pe could be an amalgamation of the two models whereby things get a whole lot more complicated. Still, I have given you the physiological facts and it is up to you to decide on which is true. If 5-6 days is no good for you then try doing a workout and taking the next day off. If after a month you have grown then you know that model 1 is correct.
Take care
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